...don't you think that you should carefully read the TOS?

That applies only to items posted on the forums - and anytime anyone has ever had a question about it, we have never tried to enforce that clause in any sort of draconian fashion. That clause is there, more than anything else, to prevent players from "taking their ball and going home".

Most of the forum games take months, even years, to run. If a player becomes dissatisfied and wants to delete all of their posts, it can really damage the enjoyment of a game for everyone else.

We have NEVER attempted to present anyone's ideas as our own, or tried to profit from them in any way. Furthermore, every single article posted on the site fully credits the author of the article. Before we post it, we make sure that the author actually WANTS us to do so.

Neither your suggestion nor your tone are appreciated, Flanker.

>>That applies only to items posted on the forums - and anytime anyone has ever had a question about it, we have never tried to enforce that clause in any sort of draconian fashion. That clause is there, more than anything else, to prevent players from "taking their ball and going home".<<

Everyday for the last ten years on my drive to work, I make a left hand turn. There's a sign there prohibiting left hand turns between the hours of 6am and 10am. It hasn't been enforced for the entire ten years I've been turning there. When questioned about it the local cops say they don't enforce it. Or didn't until yesterday.

What you choose to do and what you are able to do are two very different things, and all it takes is a slight change in the atmosphere to turn the attitudes of the local authorities around.




>>Most of the forum games take months, even years, to run. If a player becomes dissatisfied and wants to delete all of their posts, it can really damage the enjoyment of a game for everyone else.<<

Perhaps if this is such a big problem, the DMs need to treat their players better. I fail to see how the deletion of game turns that have already been posted, read, and responded to would be a problem. Do your GMs not keep archives of all that has gone on in the game? This is a very, very weak justification for the copyright disclaimer.

>>We have NEVER attempted to present anyone's ideas as our own, or tried to profit from them in any way. Furthermore, every single article posted on the site fully credits the author of the article. Before we post it, we make sure that the author actually WANTS us to do so.<<

Again, its not a matter of what you do, so much as a matter of what you could do.

>>Neither your suggestion nor your tone are appreciated, Flanker.<<

You may not appreciate it, but the guy who creates a character or game concept here, posts it, and some years down the road tries to make money off of it only to find that YOU hold the copyright to it, might.

You will not find any posts here of mine that are creative in nature for that very reason.

As for the tone, I would suggest that that is something you projected into my post, not something I put there.

I believe that the tone of the first post was projected on it.

The second post, however, sounds like one from a disgruntled customer.

I'm not picking sides here.

If that is the way Flanker feels then maybe he needs to "Take his ball home" even before someone gets a chance to play with it.

We don't need someone coming in here to sign up as a member, just so they can roust our buck, and try and ream our webmaster a new one. We have lurkers, players, those that use, apreciate, and enjoy the gaming tools provided here, and people here that hold this site dear as a second home to get away from real life just long enough to wind down. Those are the kind of members we want. So Flanker can apply whatever tone he wishes to this post he wants to.

((The post and opinions express herein are of Tiamat5774 and not necessarily those of the webmaster or any other member of the site))

-Tiamat5774

Perhaps I mistook you or treated you unfairly.

Then again, the post that I responded to was #4 on the site for you.. and was the second post griping about how rdinn.net was going to steal your character ideas and such.

For the record, I do respond poorly to thinly veiled suggestions that I am some sort of IP thief trying to rip off my membership.

If you are so concerned about your intellectual property that you don't feel comfortable posting in a game here - especially after I have explained exactly why the TOS is worded the way that it is... well, perhaps you shouldn't post in any games here.

I own this site. I am telling you in no uncertain terms why the TOS is worded in the way that it is. I am telling you in no uncertain terms that I have never attempted, nor will I ever attempt, to take someone's characters or stories and present them as my own - for profit or any other reason. Change in the atmosphere, my eye.

To take my earlier suggestion a step further - if you are so anti-rdinn, why would you want to keep coming here? I'm quite certain that you can find another forum that suits your interests better.


Now, back to my evil plan to make millions off of the items posted on this message board!

Please note - the final sentence above is SARCASM.

Hmm again...

I'd say that by agreeing with the TOS anyone writing anything at the site gives the site the permission to use the material in anyway the site pleases.

As for copyrights, I don't see any site getting the full copyright on anything posted on it unless its owner(s) have explicitly bought the copyright from the original author.

Therefore, even if the site has the author's permission (through the TOS) to handle the material in anyway it pleases (on the site), the author still can do whatever he/she wants with the same material too.

If for example a site would try to sell something I've posted on the site without my permission and I would decide to sue the site, I'd probably win the case. At least in Finland I would. I would still own the copyright for the material.

Or that's just my personal view on the matter. I haven't heard of any legal precedents testing the laws on the matter, laws that may wary from country to country.

And to imply Red Dragon Inn might try to profit (without permission) from something someone has posted on the site is simply bad behavior - insulting even.

If you fear for your IP so much Flanker, do not post it on any forum owned by anyone but yourself.

Actually, posting it in any forum is a bad idea. Too easy for someone to copy/paste. Then, you have to sue them - if you can even figure out who they are. Can you compel the website to reveal their identity? Does the website even have that information?

Do you have the money and time to do this?

Yeah, the evil thieving Red Dragon Inn is the least of your worries.

A man comes upon a grove of orange trees.
He pulls on orange out of his pocket, and sets it on the gound.
"This is mine! No one touch it!"
The fool cannot see that everyone else in the grove already had their own tree.
They don't need, or want, his decayed fruit.
And aren't sad at all when he takes it and runs, screaming "THIEF!"

The RDInn is the best place ever. To even hint at the idea that Olan or any of the staff would ever try to make money off other people's posts is beyond ludicrous!

Olan doesn't even charge us! We have absolutely free reign of the chat rooms and forums to post and visit as much as we want 24/7 if we so choose. And it's entirely free! It's not free for Olan, though. He has to pay for keeping this site and the outrageously large band-with(I assume) going for OUR FREE use!

Olan making money off us?! Pish posh, I say! He SPENDS money FOR us!!

*throws hands up and walks away mumbling the absolute idiocy of these unfounded implications*

I smell a troll, or at least a pre-law student, but for arguments sake I'll add that at least two inn members that I know of are or have made money on their own material that was also posted at the site. We never tried to swoop in and steal the proceeds.

I used to have your same concern, ask the webmaster. That was half a decade ago. Stick around and get to know the membership and you will probably change your perceptions. We are a family, and a second home to many.

It brings a smile to my face to see fellow Innmates backing up Olan and the rdinn

As for me, I'm working on my own role-playing system and setting that I intend to get published one day. I have every intention of posting the system here to get feedback, and I feel safe knowing that Olan won't try to steal my ideas, no matter what.

If you have trust issues, there is no need to bother the rest of us with those issues any further.

...right down to the "troll" or "pre-law student" bit, in fact... I had those very thoughts, myself.

Also, like Addy (and perhaps more than one other Innmate who's joined up between then and now), I had the same concerns with that bit of the ToS when I originally joined, too. But (again, like Admiral and others) I was reassured by numerous responses to any concerns I raised and, after getting to truly know the fine folk around here, more than convinced. We are a family around here and we congregate to have fun, share ideas, and generally "feel good". The last thing we want to do is "rip people off" or "snag their ideas and put our own label" on them... (although, having gotten to know Olan and company as I have, I can honestly say that they're more than welcome to anything I've got).

Anyhoo... just my rambling two cents worth... I do that, sometimes. *shrug*

Sorry you feel the way you do, Flanker, but, I guess there's plenty of other places out there on the interwebs that you can find to grind if we're not your cup of tea.

>>Then again, the post that I responded to was #4 on the site for you.. and was the second post griping about how rdinn.net was going to steal your character ideas and such.<<

I've never suggested that you were going to steal anyone's ideas or characters. It is interesthing, however, that you complain of my tone, and then mis-characterize my posts so much. What I've suggested is that those that post here should be made aware, beyond the reading of the TOS, that anything they post here becomes the property of this site.


>>If you are so concerned about your intellectual property that you don't feel comfortable posting in a game here - especially after I have explained exactly why the TOS is worded the way that it is... well, perhaps you shouldn't post in any games here.<<

And I don't, as you yourself just pointed out, I have (had) only four posts, and two them dealt with this issue.


>>I own this site. I am telling you in no uncertain terms why the TOS is worded in the way that it is. I am telling you in no uncertain terms that I have never attempted, nor will I ever attempt, to take someone's characters or stories and present them as my own - for profit or any other reason. Change in the atmosphere, my eye.<<'

Uh-huh. And yet, this: Anything posted to the Red Dragon Inn forums is considered to be the property of Rdinn.com. We reserve the right to reprint, disseminate, edit, and/or delete anything posted to these message forums and/or chatrooms" remains in place and in effect. If you never have any intention of exercising some or all of those rights, then you have no need for that statement. Its really no big issue to me (despite what you may think), because I will not risk losing the rights to any of my ideas by posting them here. Others do, however, post here, and I think most of them have not read the TOS, and are not aware, except when I bring it up, of the implications of that statement in the TOS.

>>To take my earlier suggestion a step further - if you are so anti-rdinn, why would you want to keep coming here? I'm quite certain that you can find another forum that suits your interests better.<<

I like to read.

...that's one tenacious horse, isn't it?

I kind of thought the poor thing had been beaten to death, already.